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Frankfurt-Beesa
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 12:17 pm |
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Velton wrote: I don't want to rat on a mate, really, but this revival started in Cornwall. 
So this highly opinionated FFF* is one of your mates then?
FFF=Feet Forward Fan, not some rude and insulting phrase.
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Velton
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 12:19 pm |
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No, my mistake! Should have checked more carefully. 
I thought it was McNut who revived it, with an innocent question about engineers.
Humble apologies to McNut and everyone else!
No, I don't know piedevant at all - except from his posts on here - that suits me fine!
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:53 pm by Velton
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Frankfurt-Beesa
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 12:50 pm |
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Velton wrote: No, my mistake! Should have checked more carefully.
I thought it was McNut who revived it, with an innocent question about engineers.
Humble apologies to McNut and everyone else!
No, I don't know PD at all - except from his posts on here - that suits me fine!
I guess it's ok to call him a scooter loving twunt then
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TheMightyGusset
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 12:55 pm |
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I always fancied, and still would like a Quasar !
I remember a tale concerning journalist and feet-forwards fan Paul Blezard writing off a Renault 5 with one and walking away with nary a scratch.
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Pooh
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 01:06 pm |
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zunspec wrote: As Ashely mentioned the Quasar line of bikes were designed by Malcom Newell (RIP). They were very competent machines, even with the Reliant powerplant, I followed one on two occasions back in the 70's and they could certainly move along. I met Malcom several times as he was a friend of a couple of friends (if you know what I mean), and he was very interesting chap to talk to.
I was told that Malcom did not like the idea of letting other people control his Quasar concept and this made the acquisition of finance, factory facilities etc. problematic. A shame because the Quasar had a lot going for it.
The 1st Creasey machine if I remember correctly did not have a roof and was built for him by Difazio's (hub centre steering fame (or infamy ) by one of their engineers (Trevor Burridge). Trev built all the hub centre steering bikes and was one of lifes natural engineers, whenever he worked on my TR500 motor it always went faster than when I did it and I could never figure out why. He was at heart a 500 Goldstar man and did not think much of the feet forward idea.
Cheers Zunspec
Beat me to it That was a quasar and had nothing to do with Royce Creasy but had everything to do with malcolm Newell. Feet forward did work and work very well, as for why it wasnt adopted by racers....Yup got it one motorcyclists are VERY stick in the mud and allways have been...Look at the Hossack design it went out and won races....no one wanted to know, they went out of their way to Bar his design.
FF isnt a new design the Ner a car was about in the 20s and was immensley stable, legend has it that it ran right over a foot ball with no ill effects.
As fo car a like ... there is a huge market out there for car drivers who want cheap easy to ride transport without the Getting wet and crashing in the rain senario that we all love so much....this and the BMW C1 provides a solution...are they bikes, no not really....who cares they fill the nitch and allow a commuter to go into town without getting wet or paying a commuter charge and still get 100+ mpg
Ugly is in the eye of the beholder, The engineering of the quasar and Phasar was and is based on the recumbent bicycle...and they are VERY effective with regular cruising at 30+ mph and none of the problems with hills that normal bikes suffer. They had a very low Cof G with centralised mass and you didnt hit a wall head first but feet first. The only problem on my ride was you were much lower and couldnt look over a car as normal. But top speed and high speed cruising was excellent.
But its in the nature to mock anything different or new....Check out norman Hossaks racing effort....He gave up due to closed minds as well.
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TheMightyGusset
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 01:42 pm |
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Lots of fascinating Feet-Forwards stuff here:
http://www.voidstar.com/bff/ffnewell.html
Even if it's not your sort of thing, it's worth it just to read around the subject.
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piedevant
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 01:57 pm |
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Pooh said:
"FF isnt a new design the Ner a car was about in the 20s"
Indeed. Not to mention the Avro Monocar and the 1909 Wilkinson.
See here for more history, both ancient and modern:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAgByo_txA&mode=related&search=
and here:
http://www.bikeweb.com
PNB
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Kayla
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 02:05 pm |
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| Man, who cares?
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TheMightyGusset
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 02:21 pm |
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Kayla wrote: Man, who cares?
I find the engineering fascinating.
it must be a 'man' thing, you girlies probably shouldn't worry your pretty little heads about it.
Just carry on thinking about pink things and kittens instead.
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Pooh
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 02:24 pm |
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| We care or we wouldnt bother posting would we?
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jessplop84
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 02:27 pm |
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Well try as I might, I still can't imagine sitting outside the pub, looking over at any of these machines, and thinking "Isn't that a gorgeous bike? I can't wait to ride home, taking the scenic route"
Maybe it is a matter of taste, I never liked the quasar things when they first appeared, but then there's a lot of bikes that are just plain fugly, and no matter how well or not they handle, or how economical they are, if I can't look at it without gippin' then I sure as hell don't want it cluttering up my shed.
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TheMightyGusset
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 02:35 pm |
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I think the Quasar actually looks quite good, in a very '70's sort of way.
Most of the others are definitely lacking on the styling front though - but that's what happens when engineers style things - function goes before form.
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Velton
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 04:41 pm |
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"but that's what happens when engineers style things - function goes before form."
True, but some of the most beautiful and iconic motorcyles were designed that way.*
AJS 7R early 60s being one of my favourites, the Clubman modifications to BSA Goldies etc.
Often it is about simple things like the alignment of exhaust pipes / frame tubes / dampers etc. that accumulate to elegant effect, i.m.h.o.
* I can't think of any FF bikes that would appear on my personal list!
Last edited on Wed Jul 16th, 2008 04:45 pm by Velton
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fastfranky
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 05:33 pm |
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I saw a feetfirst on a TV prog last week, made in Switzerland. Can't for the life of me remember what it was called, and haven't had time to google it. Used a shortened glider fuselage, had stabilising wheels which popped out below a certain speed and controls like 2 joysticks, and it went real fast! low drag of course. I thought it was rather cool but it costs about 100000 euros at the moment.
Big drawback with them all, as someone has already said, you haven't got the height to look over cars, which is one of the big advantages of bikes in traffic, you can always see that much further in front and plan your next move.
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piedevant
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 05:49 pm |
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Fast Franky said:
"I saw a feetfirst on a TV prog last week, made in Switzerland. Can't for the life of me remember what it was called,"
That'll be the Peraves MonoTracer, son of the Ecomobile.
I rode both in Czecho, Germany and Switzerland last year and will do the same next week. The MonoTracer recently beat a Corvette and a Hayabusa in a 'race' from Munich to Berlin; see here:
http://www.kabeleins.de/auto/videos/dreiertest/artikel/15457/
It's the most efficient fast vehicle money can buy. And last I heard it was a snip at €50,000, not €100,000
The Ecomobile is now over 20 years old and was featured in that same April '88 Top Gear TV programme as the Quasar, Voyager, Monocar, Neracar
et al. More here:
http://www.peraves.ch
and here:
http://www.bikeweb.com/image/tid/13
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piedevant
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 06:00 pm |
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Velton wrote:
"If feet forward is such a great idea in terms of reducing drag with unimpaired control, cornering etc. then why is no-one using it on the race track?"
Surely anything that offers such advantages over the traditional arrangement would be snapped up by race engineers?
Indeed it would
"Presumably there is nothing in the Regulations to exclude them?"
On the contrary. Properly streamlined machines were banned by the FIM in 1957 and the ban remains to this day. NSU were planning to race Grand Prix versions of their 200mph streamliners until the ban came in.
Similarly, recumbent pushbikes were banned from bicycle racing in the 1930s because they kept winning everything.
Your Tour de France pushbike and your MotoGP racer are both the product of ill-considered race regulation.
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starfirebird
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 06:23 pm |
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Pooh wrote: FF isnt a new design the Ner a car was about in the 20s and was immensley stable, legend has it that it ran right over a foot ball with no ill effects.
Jon rode a Ner a Car at the VMCC training day we went to recently - he was pleasantly surprised by the handling as were most of the people who were brave enough to try it (I wasn't one of them). I really like the look of them.
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Velton
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 06:30 pm |
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Yes, piedevant, I know about that streamlining ban from the late 1950s, I believe.
Is effective streamlining the only real advantage to FF, then?
Surely there must be a way to combine the other (alleged) advantages of FF bikes into one that complies with the streamlining regulations?
OK, it might not be the ultimate FF layout but it would demonstrate what they can do.
Or is anything FF banned from competition? That must have been a difficult rule to draft.
Not all racers are old stick-in-the-muds are they?
I'm thinking of Nessie and other hub-steering endurance bikes etc.
EDIT Presumably there are no such constraints in some areas like drag racing or Bonneville speed records?
Last edited on Fri Jul 18th, 2008 05:54 pm by Velton
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ClassicMCnut
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 06:36 pm |
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starfirebird wrote: Pooh wrote: FF isnt a new design the Ner a car was about in the 20s and was immensley stable, legend has it that it ran right over a foot ball with no ill effects.
Jon rode a Ner a Car at the VMCC training day we went to recently - he was pleasantly surprised by the handling as were most of the people who were brave enough to try it (I wasn't one of them). I really like the look of them.
Just a shame it wasn't one of those overpaid prima-donna footballers I'd give them a list on which ones to start on.
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iand
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Posted: Wed Jul 16th, 2008 06:51 pm |
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they had a parade of feet forward motorcycles at the beaulieu show
included a whole load of these
taken from here:
http://www.carver-worldwide.com/SubItem/SubItem.asp?S_ID=28&nc=1
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