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Craig
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Posted: Tue Jul 8th, 2008 07:58 am |
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Hi all - I am considering how best to paint the frame of a 1929 Velocette.
I want to do this using original methods so far as possible.
Does anybody know whether the original finish would have been? I would imagine options could be:
- Oil based enamel paint, sprayed on wet and then baked/stoved
- Brushed paint coach enamel (tekaloid?)
- Sprayed cellulose
I know that there are more durable, cheaper finishes but I am after something as dull and badly applied as the OE.
Any advice would be very welcome.
Thanks, Craig
Last edited on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 08:01 am by Craig
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Frankfurt-Beesa
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 08:00 am |
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You could get it pwder coated and then chuck it off Ben Nevis, that should give it an authentic look. Or chuck it in a peat bog for a few years, the powder coating should pick up a nice patina.
Alternatively, raise middle finger in direction of originality and have it done properly so it will last many years.
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Craig
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 08:11 am |
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Yes, could do but that 's not what I want to do. I have many bikes and I have done that.
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Frankfurt-Beesa
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 09:57 am |
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Which ones have you tried?
As far as I'm aware the paints used way back then contained so many poisons that they would be on the dubya/blair list of WMDs. As soon as you open a tin Hans Blix would come around your shed and close you down so fast you wouldn't have time to mutter 'Oh Bugger'.
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aero
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 10:57 am |
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I have used a red oxide brush primer and Japlac with excellent results. You can't get some of the old paints as they are really toxic. Bushing takes a long time and you need an expensive brush to get a good finish. I Found that 4-5 coats gives a good finish, you have to flat off and throughly de-dust after every coat. It can take several days for the paint to be hard enough to flat off. You can see this is a slow process, but you can get a glass like finish and a depth of shine that is amazing.
Although you can get a super finish, brushing will test your patiance to the limit as just when you think you have a perfect job you'll spot a run! And you have to have a spotlessly clean and dust free area due to the length of drying time of the paint.
You'd be hard pressed to buy cellulose paint these days as its banned for automotive use. I can put you in contact with a company that sells it. It really isn't a very good paint for frames. It allows moisture to soak through it, its soft and damages very easily (like Japlac). But its dead easy to apply. You could spray the frame, from primer to top coat in a day.
A better option would be to use a modern two pack. This is a much tougher paint and easy to apply. Highly toxic and makes your hair fall out and your bollox drop off. Forced air breathing mask recommended, and don't use it near your house.
I've never had a frame stove enamalled so can't really comment. Plastic coating is very strong, but hard to over paint and repair. Also its a thick coating that makes everthing look rounded off or smoothed over. This causes major problems when fitting the bike back together. You need to mask your threads, bearing housings and any pushed together assemblies as plastic coating defies most attampts to remove it.
I've just looked at the tekaloid website, that looks quite promising, maybe better then my Favoured Japlac! As much as you want to use an original finish, watching all your hard work (and Money) rotting away due to a low quality, ancient finishing system that just doesn't protect the metal very well is a sole destroying experience. Been there and got the tee shirt with cellulose paint.
Last edited on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 11:23 am by aero
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TheMightyGusset
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 11:27 am |
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Craig wrote: I am after something as dull and badly applied as the OE.
Fair Play to you Sir !
Whatever happened to those old magazine articles showing how to prepare and paint a frame using a 1" paint brush ?
You could always try watering down a tin of Smoothrite - that'll give a really dull and crappy finish !
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aero
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 12:04 pm |
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Smootherite....the only paint I know that reacts with itself!
I seem to have missed that line in the orginal post. It is difficult to imagine a s h i ttier finish then watered down smootherite
Last edited on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 12:08 pm by aero
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Rudge
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 12:29 pm |
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Hi, I use International 2 pack from boat chandlers, easy to use as it is designed for brushing and at a reasonable price. One tin will do a whole bike the primers are good too. This finish is very durable and easy to apply.
I usually blast, etch prime, then put on several coats of primer, rub down and a few more coats of primer until the rust pits have gone then a couple of coats of top coats, I usually rub down in between these coats so that I can see where I am painting. For the last few coats I use a fine artists brush, not a good one about £3.00 from the local toy shop then you don't get any brush marks.
It's fairly quick to use, just leave overnight to set and add another coat the next day.
You do have to use these paints in a well ventilated space, I usually work with the garage door open.
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Craig
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Posted: Wed Jul 9th, 2008 02:44 pm |
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Here is an interesting link:
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/GeorgePeck/EnamellingDept.htm
Pinchin Johnson was eventually bought by Courtaulds and became part of ICI (now International Paints who make Japlac still). At the time this chap was working there, Sunbeam were owned by ICI. Isnt it a small world.
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Tnecniv Edipar
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Posted: Tue Aug 26th, 2008 09:49 pm |
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Powder coat first for durability , then spray or brush paint over that.
I've had frames stove enamelled in the past , used 2 b a great place in Leeds , straight out of the Brunnel era !! They red lead undercoated first , then stoved. Doubt they're still in existance tho.
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Craig
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 08:56 am |
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| No chance you can remember the name of it? Ideally after somewhere that dips the frame rather than sprays them.
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Tnecniv Edipar
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 09:49 am |
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Well , it was more years ago than I want to admit !! I'll ask a mate that still lives up there to check it out.
Stove enamelling must still be available because it's used on office equipment of all things !!
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Craig
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 09:51 am |
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Ta!
Youre right of course - still used a lot but its trying to a place that will do a bike frame (well) thats the problem.
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Velton
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 01:19 pm |
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Since McNut is out of action, may I make his usual suggestion without fear of accusations of plagiary?
He uses basic black enamel paint intended for fences, railings and so on from B&Q etc. That must be similiar to what was originally available in the 1920s, I would think.
The quality of the finish simply depends on the preparation and skill of the painter.
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norfiat
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Posted: Wed Aug 27th, 2008 02:30 pm |
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Theres a link below about frame finishing ,time consuming but cheap,,
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~pattle/nacc/arc0078.htm
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Justin Faithfull
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 02:07 pm |
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I think the nearest to a fairly authentic finish today would be stove enamelling. Sprayed on wet & then baked for a reasonably durable finish.
As Velton said the quality of the finished job would depend on the preparation put into the frame first.
Last edited on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 02:08 pm by Justin Faithfull
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Tnecniv Edipar
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Posted: Mon Sep 29th, 2008 08:31 am |
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| My M8 in Leeds checked out where that stoving place used to be , long gone I'm afraid , it's all upmarket apartments now !!
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trumpetsandjampots
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Posted: Tue Sep 30th, 2008 10:43 pm |
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Justin Faithfull wrote: I think the nearest to a fairly authentic finish today would be stove enamelling. Sprayed on wet & then baked for a reasonably durable finish.
As Velton said the quality of the finished job would depend on the preparation put into the frame first.
i think justin has the idea, powder coating is too bulky to be authentic looking. To be honest if you cant get stoving done something like tekaloid enamel is pretty tough and weathers in nicely. Avoid thinning too much it seems to lose its durability.
Also Fleet enamel from your local spraystore. used as a commercial lorry paint. I did my boys mini with a 5" roller a few years back in grey, still looks good for its age.
Have you tried Wickes Black spray on to metal stuff.. Dont laugh. Three coats of this is fab on small parts. its only £6 to have a little experiment with.
regards Rob
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