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Swannie
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Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 10:15 am |
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Hi, the two words, sidevalve and performance aren't heard very often in the same sentence these days, although Ive heard that back in the roaring '20s there were clever tuners who could get them to perform quite well.
A while ago I bought a pallet of parts which will one day be a 1929 Model B Ariel and would like to hear from anyone with either practical experience or informed theory , on how to improve the performance from an old SV engine .
More recently, I've bought an OHV head and barrel so if my SV idea turns out to be one can short of a 6 pack, I'll have an alternative.
I enjoy the Classic racing scene, where speed is often the last reason people are involved, and presently ride a rigid B31 BSA....cheers, Barry
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WelshWizard
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Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 01:01 pm |
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Welcome Swannie
http://www.nzcmrr.com/ you will find some people who race their old one at this site and as you list NZ as your present base might be worth a further look
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vfactory
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Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 03:50 pm |
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there are probably ways of improving performance... you might find some specialist who could guide you but as far as i know performace increase is not as great compared to a ohv simply because there is only so much air that can be crammed into a sv. if you can think of a way to do it that'll be your first performance increase.
____________________
Its Not What You Ride
Its How You Ride It That Counts!
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nala
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Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 06:51 pm |
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| I'm pretty sure there are a bunch of blokes who sprint flatheads in this mighty fine land of ours and getting some pretty impressive times, but its a while ago since i read this and i can't for the life of me think where i saw it,maybe someone in the sprint world will know.
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Long live the "specials" builders
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fido
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Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 09:27 pm |
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Swannie wrote:
I enjoy the Classic racing scene, where speed is often the last reason people are involved, and presently ride a rigid B31 BSA....cheers, Barry
If you follow the classic racing in NZ you may have come across my mate Dig who races late '30s M series BSA overhead valve singles, the forerunners of your B31. He has a few anecdotes on his website:
http://www.sportanduniform.co.nz/wrinklyracing/index.php
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Swannie
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Posted: Sun Jun 3rd, 2007 10:51 pm |
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...thanks for all of the responses.
I've sent a message to Dig Mr Fido, amazing to think that a person on the other side of the globe told me about someone who might be able to help, and they live quite close to home.
I've been told there is an article on a fast sidevalve Ariel in the November 1988 edition of Classic Bike Magazine...if anyone has a copy , I'd be most grateful if you could send my a scanned copy of the relavent pages...Regards, Barry.
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Frankfurt-Beesa
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Posted: Sun Jun 10th, 2007 12:00 pm |
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| Perhaps if you bimble down to Invercargill and search for a slightly stinky lemon tree, park the bike under the tree and assume a meditative trance next to the bike and perhaps it will improve.
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Swannie
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Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 06:37 am |
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...a very good idea Frankenfurter, and will be considered as an option if all else fails.
The smelly Lemon tree would certainly be able to help with yankie V twins and Vellocettes, not sure if the sacred aromatic soil has ever had oil from an Ariel crankcase dripped upon it.
If I do try it and it works, I will bottle small quantities of of the aformentioned earth, and sell it to anyone who wants to make old iron go faster ..... and I promise it won't cost you tooo much, all credit cards will accepted....cheers Barry,
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fido
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Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 07:32 am |
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You could try some of the techniques used at the Triumph factory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc
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Swannie
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Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 09:46 am |
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...you know Fido, I've just finished reading Bert Hopwoods book which details the demise of the Brit Motorcycle industry "Version One"...and now I firmly believe that the Brit MC industry "Version II" could also be heading towards the same sad end...mind you, my Ariel and I would love to know where were they were putting the
strawberry jam...Bazza.
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bon
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Posted: Mon Jun 11th, 2007 01:56 pm |
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check your private messages swannie
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Rick Parkington
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Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2007 06:01 pm |
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Hi Swannie, sorry been away for a week in sunny Spain for a Rock'n'roll weekender and just got back.
The tuned Ariel mentioned was the famous bike built by Lawrence Hartley in the early thirties. It was a 1926 flat tank model A - more or less the same motor as yours but yours has various stronger parts. Hartley specialised both before the War and after in Ariel tuning and the words 'Hartley Ariel' had a similar significance to what 'Dunstall Norton' had in later years. Reputedly the 1926 557cc side valve was good for almost 90 mph around Brooklands.
There is an article in an old copy of the VMCC magazine written by Hartley about side valve tuning, I will look it up - the VMCC should be able to do a copy of it for a small fee. Late-vintage, Val Page designed Ariels, like yours, are superb, usable vintage bikes. My pal Peter the Meter has a '28 model B. He took it to the Isle of Man the year before last, riding it from Scotland and back, and covered 1000 miles in the week without trouble. In standard form these bikes will kick out around 65mph. They have good sturdy frames and big brakes for their day but are still light enough to feel quite sporty. Hugo has muttered about getting one and I keep trying to persuade him. Ariels are always underrated and as a result they are a bargain, enjoy it!
I will post up more information tomorrow, by which time I hope to have largely recovered from my week's holiday!
Cheers Rick
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Swannie
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Posted: Tue Jun 12th, 2007 09:44 pm |
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...look foward to hearing more Rick...I've just joined the UK owners group, Ariel Motors Limited, hoping to learn more from that site.
In the meantime, just keep rubbing on the Calamine Lotion...Barry.
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Rick Parkington
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Posted: Tue Jun 19th, 2007 06:09 pm |
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Hi Barry, the Laurence Hartley side-valve tuning article is in the Vintage MCC magazine from September 1969. I don't know whether you have to be a member to access the archive but the person to contact is Club archivist Annice Collett, whose email is library@vmcc.net
Give it a try, cheers Rick
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Swannie
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 09:15 am |
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Thanks Rick, sent a request to the VMCC hope they can help.
Just going back to your previous post re your mate Peter the Meter, ( is the nickname something to do with his stature or is he just well endowered ), that was quite a monumental trip he did, how many days did he take, you would need plenty of rest stops I imagine as the old rigids aren't that comfy...Barry.
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Rick Parkington
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Posted: Wed Jun 20th, 2007 08:47 pm |
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Sorry I refer to Peter as the Meter because he is an electrical engineer and always equipped with a multi meter. Any other personal statistics are not within my sphere of knowledge!
He rode the bike down to the ferryin one hit 160 miles or so and then spent the week riding about on the Isle of Man and then finished with the ride back in one hit again. The same year I took my 1932 600 Sunbeam and my wife Angie was on her 1937 250 Sunbeam. All the bikes did very well without any major bother.
Pete's used to rigid Ariels he uses a '47 350 quite a lot for rallies etc. I find rigid bikes adequately comfortable - in fact my Inter Norton, that has a rubber Dunlop saddle, is the most comfortable bike I have ever ridden on a long distance. Funnily enough the most uncomfortable bike I ever rode was a Honda Transalp - that had me standing on the footpegs after half an hour!
Peter's Model B came as a basket case and he put the time into rebuilding it properly with new big end, mag rebuild, re-bushed forks, etc. Like me Pete is not too fussy about cosmetics but he will not put up with things that don't work right, and will keep at it until it can be trusted.
At first it wouldn't rev out and instead of taking the view that you can't expect too much from an eighty year old bike, he wisely said "This is crap. If I had bought it new I would have taken it back and complained." It turned out the cam had been incorrectly re-profiled, we got another and it went like a train.
Cheers Rick
Last edited on Wed Jun 20th, 2007 08:51 pm by Rick Parkington
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Swannie
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Posted: Sun Jun 24th, 2007 11:43 am |
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| ...to the kind folk who have offered to send me a copy of the Nov. 1988 article on "The worlds Fastest VB", please take no more action as I have just purchased a copy of the mag. in question from the Gisborne Classic MCC when I was at their annual rally this weekend....regards, Barry.
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Velton
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Posted: Mon Jun 25th, 2007 04:56 pm |
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Swannie, side valve perfomance is dictated by the same factors as ohv or ohc performance.
Get more air/ fuel in and out by flowing ports, increasing compression (e.g skimming the cylinder head) bigger carb, different cam etc. Often little or no room to increase valve sizes because of the side valve layout.
I've never owned a side valve bike, but I had a side valve E93a Ford Popular with a Ford 10 (smaller combustion chamber) head and an inch and a half SU carb (much bigger) that went like stink for a £10 car with only 3 gears!
Last edited on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 04:57 pm by Velton
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Just being old doesn't make it a "Classic."
Aaaah.Nostalgia isn't what it used to be!
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Swannie
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 10:30 am |
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 .....I think you've prettywell sumed it up Velton...what about lightening the bottom end...or just a polish?
A later/bigger oil pump probably won't hurt either...will start with Avgas although alcohol is a cooler burning option...Barry.
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bon
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Posted: Tue Jun 26th, 2007 01:16 pm |
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sorry haven't been able to send you that article on the hartley ariel swannie ,i have found another interesting piece in november 2001 classic bike about bill gough who managed to get over 100 mph out of a bsa m20 without resorting to dropping it off a cliff or the use of explosives .
i'll see if i can scan them and send them to you ,pity the magazine can't provide this service wih all the technology in use now.
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